The whole peaknik, collapsitarian and transition community is awash in a tsunami of verbiage that repeats a pattern that has begun to push my “disturbed” button. This is how the game is played: ‘We affirm that we need to do things differently, and describe what those things are. Then we throw in a juicy bit about our favorite solution, all shiny and wonderful. Then we exhort.’ I will refer to repeaters of this pattern as “Plan B” people (after Lester Brown who has turned this game into a publishing machine).
Just for a taste, let’s look at some recent sage advice from the Solutions Journal, telling us what must urgently be done to fix our world. “Five key steps must be taken: getting off fossil fuels, taking money out of politics, shifting values, changing the structure of the corporation, and moving to a full-cost accounting system.” Well! Is that all? [banging my head against the wall] But these good folks do not stop there, they actually tell us how to do this: to take money out of politics, for example, voters must insist. That’s a load off my mind! It’s as good as solved, right? Voters of the past apparently failed to insist. It boggles the mind.
Do you figure that if we repeat the same refrain about all the clever, wise, and eminently rational things that could be done to improve our odds and bring sanity to human lives the world over, suddenly a miracle will happen and those in power will just go… well gosh, what were we thinking?! Of course we will let homeless people into empty mcmansions, dump the Fed and give money creation back to the people, take subsidies away from agribiz, provide funding for appropriate tech, create a steady-state economy, and … and … and … yeah, right.
I did not use to foam at the mouth over such musings. Once, so long ago that it seems like another lifetime, it fascinated me, those dreams and lists of potential solutions. Now I see them as sticky plaque clogging up the arteries of the transition shift unfolding around us. Creating the illusion that solutions to our problems are round the corner allows people to dither in comfort. The Plan B folk are right about one thing, though: there are plenty of good ideas, gadgets, and intentions out there that could create a massively better human world. But then, this is nothing new. There have always been wonderful ideas, gadgets and intentions around that could have been used to better human lives. Occasionally, it even happened. But overall, the execution of these ideas has been largely wasted on status and power games. As we speak, a huge chunk of the U.S. budget goes to support the military. Could these resources and capable people be utilized for creative, beneficial things? Of course they could! Is it going to happen by repeating how wonderful it would be, affirming over and over the desirability of such a world and exhorting people to make it happen? No. No bloody no. Why? Because those who want that to happen do not hold the power, and those who hold the power do not want it to happen. Unless we transitioners tackle this “catch 22” [you need A to get B, but you need B to get A], we’ll get more of the same crap that got us into this mess.
We already know how to spew out wonderful ideas and gadgets. Our human world is not lacking in these things, it’s overflowing with them. So let us take that as a starting point and say, ‘ok, what do we need to do to be able to actually implement them in ways that serve life rather than power?’ How do we git’er done? What, for example, do we need to do to make it possible to get from under the yoke of the bankers and their web of debt? How do we implement a sane economy in the face of intransigence from the financial elites?
Into the new year, I have resolved to stop spending my time on the study of “good ideas” whose proponents ignore the problem of implementation. Apparently, they hope that some day, the masses will arise and carry their pet idea to fruition, and so they need not trouble themselves with the challenges of political “how.” I could call it the Karl Marx fallacy. But then, “pie in the sky fallacy” sounds catchier.
The other day, I noticed Hazel Henderson committing the pie-in-the-sky fallacy when she wrote:
“To finally correct our money-creation ceded to private banks by Congress in 1913 through the Federal Reserve system, Congress could enact the Monetary Reform Act long proposed and vetted by seasoned market veterans of the American Monetary Institute. This would entail a rolling readjustment in money issuance – now obviously dysfunctional under the Fed and private banks and return it to a public function as in the US Constitution.”
To which I retorted: ‘They theoretically could. But they won’t. Because they are owned lock stock and barrel by those they should be regulating. So what’s the point of suggesting this as though it were a real option?’
I am banging my shoe on the table like Khruschev, loudly demanding of all you idea wizards out there that you tell us both whether the idea is sound and feasible in, for example, the economic sense, and whether it is feasible in the political sense. If it isn’t the latter, as is patently the case here, I would like to know what you propose should be done first in the political sense before such far-reaching change becomes possible. If both are not provided by idea creators and disseminators, I’ll assume that they are just offering another helping of skypie, and will politely decline. ‘Nuff already!
For skypie with an extra helping of corn syrup meringue, I invite folks to visit the website of the Venus Project, showcased in the Zeitgeist films. Never mind its “let’s pave over the earth,” futurist-beehive visuals. Never mind the bad faith of its utopian founder. What apparently draws many acolytes to this vision is the so-called “resource based economy.” What is it, you may well ask? It turns out to be a leftover serving of Marxist skypie: from each according to their ability, to each according to their need. Oh, it’s dumbed down a bit. Prettified. But I swear, there is nothing else there than dreamy babble! Yet people eat it up. They dismiss concerns regarding implementation as someone else’s bailiwick. The problem of power does not exist in their minds, all that is needed is an inspiring dream and a devoted following. Crazymaking, nah?
Don’t get me wrong. I adore some of the clever ideas showcased by many bright, thoughtful people nowadays. (Did you know that Einstein invented a fridge that has no moving parts and needs no electricity? The patent was bought by Electrolux and shelved.) They make it clear for anyone who looks, that human creativity is not lacking, and much could readily be done to give humanity and the planet a better chance. But unless we skip pie for awhile, and focus on the more difficult task of cooking up the main course – real world “doingness” — all we’ll have to show for our effort is chronic indigestion. Isn’t it high time to invent a whole new way to do politics that favors life-serving ways and disadvantages power-serving ways? JM Greer recently encouraged his readers to try daring, even unlikely things. But he is not peddling skypie. ‘Go and find a way to do it,’ he prompts. ‘You may find out it cannot be done, which will be useful to those coming after. Or you may be surprised by success. Don’t let its unlikelihood deter you from trying.’ And I think the same can be said of tackling the problem of power with all the smarts and courage we can muster.
May we find a way, in the coming New Year 2011. Wishing you health, kindness and beauty in the days ahead.

December 23, 2010 at 3:38 am
Hey Leavergirl,
a) that’s a very very sensible New Year’s resolution. I could join you in it and we could help each other get back on the wagon if either of us falls off? What say you.
b) But pie, it’s so tasty!!! Don’t matter there ain’t no nutrients, it’s just yummy.
c) You know about the Lucas Aerospace plan, right?
http://libcom.org/history/1976-the-fight-for-useful-work-at-lucas-aerospace
d) My favourite pie/economics related quote is from Bertram Gross’s Friendly Fascism
“If we just enlarge the pie, everyone will get more”. This has been the imagery of Capitalist
growthmanship since the end of World War II- and I once did my share in propagating it. But the growth of the
pie did not change the way the slices were distributed except to enlarge the absolute gap between the lion’s
share and the ant’s. And whether the pie grows, or stops growing, or shrinks, there are always people who
suffer from the behaviour of the cooks, the effluents from the oven, the junkiness of the pie, and the fact that
they needed something more nutritious than pie anyway.” Bertram Gross, Friendly Fascism
e) It’s a long time since I had a firsties on one of your posts!
December 23, 2010 at 6:40 am
[...] On semi-related topics – there’s Johnnie Moore’s weblog of useful writings and links, and a new post about the delusions of people building castles in the air on the ever-excellent “Leav… [...]
December 23, 2010 at 9:41 am
Blessed Unrest
–by Martha Graham (Mar 31, 2003)
There is a vitality, a life force, a quickening
that is translated through you into action,
and because there is only one of you in all time,
this expression is unique.
If you block it,
it will never exist through any other medium
and be lost.
The world will not have it.
It is not yours to determine how good it is;
nor how it compares with other expressions.
It is your business to keep the channel open.
You do not even have to believe in yourself or your work.
You have to keep open and aware directly
to the urges that motivate you.
Keep the channel open.
No artist is ever pleased.
There is no satisfaction whatever at any time.
There is only a queer divine dissatisfaction;
a blessed unrest that keeps us marching
and makes us more alive than the others.
Paul Hawken probably got the title for his book about the myriad small groups working towards a better world from this quote.
Impatience has great value in this quest of ours. Paradoxically, so does patience. We are all in a hurry to leave Babylon, and find the Promised Land. The problem is that us children of Babylon don’t really know how to get there. It’s not even clear what our destination is. Consequently, we are confused and frustrated.
It has always been this way, since the dim beginnings of the human journey. Indeed there seems to be no resting place for the seekers after a true way of living together and being human. Temporary solutions are routinely overthrown, and we are on the road again. There seems to be no other choice but to pick ourselves up with whatever glimmers of direction we can discern, and try, try again…
Wisdom is to recognize that the revolution we dimly seek is profound, and not the work of a day. Foolishness is to grasp at ephemeral “solutions” that are as easy as pie.
December 23, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Hi ya leavergirl,
What to do, what to do, what to do? Banging ones head against the wall doesn’t seem to do much good. I suggest getting good at practical things. Even a Druid could probably survive in bible belt Oklahoma if he or she was a decent mechanic. Harmless eccentrics are tolerated and even appreciated in most places.
Pushing a green agenda won’t make you any friends amongst the folks, but being an organic gardener just because you like it will be perfectly acceptable.
Silly nut jobs have more freedom than ‘normal’ people and if your interest is dirty and involves some hard work the sociopaths will avoid you. Oh they might come around to tell you that you are doing it wrong, but asking them to show you the proper way will usually make them go away.
When people ask me why I put together an electric bike, I just say it’s because I’m a bit of a nerd. Also, I don’t use roundup because I don’t want to piss off the fairies.
By the way, Elecrolux may have bought and shelved Einstein’s design, but the patent has expired anyway. You can buy a refrigerator that operates on the absorption principle right now, or make one yourself. We had one back in the fifties. They are totally reliable and fairly cheap to run, but have some drawbacks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator
December 23, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Marc, it’s a deal. Too much of the cloying stuff around…
Read your link on Lucas… breaks my heart. Not paying attention to power ruins so much that people put years of their lives into…
Haven’t read Friendly Fascism yet, but yer whetting my appetite! One of those books that have been floating by me for years, and I have not reached out to grab it.
Lovely poem, Mike, thank you.
I gotta differ about your assessment of the human (sapiens) journey… most of our history was not lived in Babylon. Babylon is only a few thousand years old. That’s one of the things that gives me hope that leaving is possible…
Hey Glenn —
Right on! “if your interest is dirty and involves some hard work the sociopaths will avoid you…” — tee hee… good catch…
Yeah, about the E fridge… people are working on making the design much more efficient. What, btw, are the disadvantages? — I wanted to use it as an example because it shows how a useful gadget can be scuttled for years by the powers that be. I just heard of a green fridge that has been available in Europe since 92 but has only now been “allowed” into the US. It does not use the coolants that damage the ozone layer (even the less harmful ones that are now in use).
December 24, 2010 at 6:56 am
What if an undue preoccupation with the imagined desirability of an aboriginal pre-Babylon lifestyle is just another lullaby, as JMG recently characterized many daydreams of a better world? Where do we find working models of this lifestyle that would have sufficient appeal to lead to large scale replication? How many who cherish these vague dreams have made substantive steps to realize them in practice? How many of these ideas can be accurately characterized as lifeboat/survivalist small groups? Does this mean that those so inclined have given up entirely the idea of reforming society as a whole, and merely seek their own salvation? The hell with everyone else, I just want to be snug and safe in my own blue heaven, far from the madding crowd’s ignoble strife? And would they imagine against all reality that their choice of an austere way of life would be persuasive to more than a handful of others?
Not meaning to put down anyone’s dreams, but as Delmore Schwartz famously said, “In dreams begin responsibilities.” We need to check out our deeper motivations and desires as we envision different futures. After the dreaming (needful) the reality check (necessary).
December 24, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Mike, good questions. I am coming from the study of sapiens history. It reaches back 200,000 years, and most of that time “we” lived out of Babylon: either in bands and tribes, or in more plentiful times, in proto-civilizations some of which I described here, and which were largely egalitarian and based on voluntary participation.
Babylon — i.e. this civilization — is of very short duration by comparison. This historical picture suggests to me that this “domination civilization” is an aberration.
Does this provide a soothing narrative? Well, perhaps other folks here will chime in. I don’t see it, apart from the obvious: that if a catastrophe befalls the human species, it can readily return to the tribal way of life. But I don’t find primitivism particularly soothing myself. I think that the best “dream” is to reconnect with the civilizational experimentation of our far ancestors, who were attempting to build a non-Babylonian, differently-civilized world.
Which means, I think, learning from the primitivist patterns as to what works, learning from the early civs what worked then, learning from this civ if we can, and wing the rest. Is there something in this picture that sounds the wrong note for you?
December 24, 2010 at 2:22 pm
“Which means, I think, learning from the primitivist patterns as to what works, learning from the early civs what worked then, learning from this civ if we can, and wing the rest. Is there something in this picture that sounds the wrong note for you?”
Could not have said it better myself. We are in exact agreement on this. It is apparent to me that my “arrows” are not going to hit your positions. Maybe I can redirect them where they can strike some targets needing critique.
I was just listening to Gabor Mate on Democracy Now. One of his main points is that good brain development needs to have a foundation like that of aboriginal child rearing practices. Lacking this, children grow up with deeply disturbed emotional problems that are actually based in distorted brain structures and neurochemical abnormalities acquired in the earliest days of infancy. He sees ADD, bipolar syndrome, autism, violent behavior, lack of the ability to care for others, etc. as outcomes of our modern way of child nurturance. This is then a deep biological foundation for a peaceful, non-dominator way of life. The various mental/emotional disorders manifested by today’s kids (and eventually adults) are increasing at an alarming rate now. This is reflected in the tremendous increase in the use of powerful psychiatric drugs to try to deal with these problems.
Prolonged physical contact with a non-stressed mother seems to be the key to founding this kind of mental health in the growing infant. This situation is becoming vanishingly rare in modern society. Unfortunately, when we try to recreate some of the stability of our distant relatives, we are not playing with a full deck: who among us had that kind of infancy and childhood? I would assume that one of the primary considerations in creating a sharers village, or whatever one would choose to call it, would be to make it a place where kids could receive this kind of needed support, and where mother’s had the freedom to devote themselves to this crucial work when it was needed. What do you sharers think of this? If you are not familiar with Gabor Mate’s books, his interviews may be available at Democracy Now! On the web.
December 24, 2010 at 3:33 pm
I think the article below says something very important about our exodus from Babylon. Let me know what you think?
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175335/tomgram%3A_rebecca_solnit%2C_a_shadow_government_of_kindness/#more
December 24, 2010 at 11:45 pm
Hi Mike (and others!),
a few random observations.
I am bloody glad I grew up before the Internet, and especially the whole facebook thing. (Zadie Smith has an excellent, IMHO, piece in a recent New York Review of Books about the consequences of this for her students, visible to her in the space of the seven years she has been teaching. The essay, free on line, is called “Generation Why?”
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/25/generation-why/?pagination=false
I grew up with “Significant Life Experiences” of unstructured play in rural/natural settings before the age of 11, which is, I now know, one of the key things many eco-campaigners have in common.
The brain stuff does worry me – Nicholas Carr had that essay “Is Google making us stupid” that he turned into “The Shallows”. It’s hard, of course, since some of the increase in prescriptions will be down to the hard work of pharmaceutical companies medicalising everything in sight. That said, it does seem extraordinarily unlikely that slapping kids in front of rectangular screens for however many hours a week would have NO effect on brain chemistry, neuronal sprouting etc.
Leavergirl – I’d say the key thing that will differentiate post-collapse communities from the pre-Babylon ones will be that we will know that we have come down from “civilisation” (cue pumping fist at Statue of Liberty ‘how could you let it happen’ etc). That’s some tough knowledge to live with. That and all the nuclear power stations/chemical weapons dumps etc that have not been decommissioned/decontaminated. Bagsy New Zealand…
December 27, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Best post yet in some ways! And good comments as always…just read the Solnit essay. Of course it leaves out the ‘Delaying the Inevitable’ problem with playing ‘damage control’; she isn’t savvy to why the dark side of human nature isn’t likely to subside enough to seriously stem the evil tide (at least not if we’re not savvy to it). Hence the “hope” isn’t very hopeful for me. And i started and will finish the Lucas tale.
No time to do justice to Leavergirl’s thoughts this session, except to say i’m with you! But Mike, in answer to your question about what we “sharers” think about those child-rearing practices, absolutely that’s more the way to go…”attachment parenting” and the like have a fine track record in modern times. Yet i also feel it important to emphasize that there’s too damn many of us selfish consuming humans, and we need to factor that in to our discussions of how to raise kids. Bugs me all the denial reflected in nearly everyone except ZPG types doing little more than mentioning this growing elephant in the room, if it gets mentioned at all.
So in general, down with ALL denial, i say!
More soon as i have time. Glad you folks are there…let’s make next year a year of real change, at least among us, whoever that is, eh?!
December 27, 2010 at 5:50 pm
P.S. On the other hand, not to be a Scrooge, i really liked Ms. Solnit’s strong case for compassion, empathy, etc…without that it’s all for naught and humans would pretty much just suck, from the world and each other. The way folks come through in crisis IS very much important to strategize around and factor in, take heart in, have hope for, etc.
December 29, 2010 at 7:43 am
Hi all,
please indulge a little self-promotion in a good cause – I’ve just posted a very good (IMHO) checklist designed by Frances Moore Lappe (she wrote Diet for a Small Planet, and a host of other good books). The link is here-
http://dwighttowers.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/perfect-5-point-checklist-for-saving-the-world/
Best wishes
January 4, 2011 at 11:31 am
Larry, Leavergirl,
It looks like the Larry post from yesterday (that arrived in my inbox) didn’t get posted here in the comments section. True?
Anyway, i agree with your core question completely, Larry. We need to grow the collaborative consciousness and resulting action instead of focusing on “taking back” the planet from the power freaks. Anyone disagree here?
January 4, 2011 at 12:42 pm
Hi JayD,
Thanks for addressing my core question. My Jan 3rd comment is included under Vera’s Dec 3 “Anti-power” post, so I’m addressing your response on the “Anti-power” thread.
January 4, 2011 at 12:52 pm
Hello Larry, welcome aboard the anywhere out of this world express. Your insightful comments reveal you are not a newcomer to our considerations. Your concluding question goes to an important crux of the complex knot we are trying to untie:
“Can a better, more enlightened and collaborative world be “grown” while power remains concentrated? Or, must we take our power back before beginning to grow a better society?”
I have four answers to this: yes, no, maybe, and I don’t know. I think all these answers are valid, but within what parameters would take some exploring. I am convinced that such exploring is one very important response to the global nightmare we are involved in. This blog is one location where these questions are being addressed, I really hope there are many venues around the world working on this problem. Creative thought is meaningful action.
I am “enjoying” some kind of devastating virus attack (not on my PC, but on me) at this time. When my own forces have pushed back (and out!) these inner enemies, maybe I will send my own current thoughts on the four responses I indicated, and some pathways they might point to.
To JayD et al, Larry’s response was on the comments to Anti-power. Maybe we should make a policy of posting our comments on levergirl’s latest essay? Might cut down confusion. What think ye?
January 4, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Hello mike k,
In light of your request to post comments on the most current essay, I am re-posting my reply to JayD from Vera’s “Anti-power” essay to this one. Best wishes for a speedy recovery. I look forward to your thoughts. My re-post follows:
Hi JayD,
Thanks for addressing my core question.
You wrote, “We need to grow the collaborative consciousness and resulting action instead of focusing on “taking back” the planet from the power freaks. Anyone disagree here?”
I agree, however, I also recognize that there are few, if any, true “vacuums” left on our planet. The influence of those in power is so extensive that it’s not likely one can create a new society unaffected and unimpeded by that influence and power. Even if a new society is created, how would “we” protect ourselves from those still stuck in a power/domination world?
I believe there’s a key, though subtle, distinction between “taking back the planet” and “taking back our power” (though my previous comment did not make that distinction). I believe Vera has already asked this question in her writings: Is it possible to dis-empower those in power by simply taking our power back? In other words, do we need to overpower those in power? Or, can we simply withdraw our power?
At least in the political and economic spheres, those in power need our support to stay in power. Can we dis-empower them with our votes at the ballot box and at the cash register?
Would it be wise to work on both fronts at the same time? That is to say, can we “grow the collaborative consciousness and resulting action” while also removing our power and disempowering those who currently control our economic and political structures? Is removing our power adequate to remove the shackles?
January 5, 2011 at 10:32 am
Mike, i like your idea to post comments to the most recent leavergirl post, though i did receive Larry’s comment by checking the appropriate box (see below) in my email, but i didn’t notice it didn’t belong to the current post, which in so doing created this confusion. I’ve noticed that i have to re-”subscribe” to every post or i don’t get notified of a new comment. It’d be nice if all comments to all posts would just come to Inbox, but that’d still leave things a bit tricky to track. So yeah, maybe comment in both the original post and refer back to it in the current post like Larry did, or re-post, which he also did.
Mike, i hope your virus is already abating.
Everyone, how goes things on your ends of this convo, here in the New Year? Personally, this is setting up to be probably the most positively “challenging” year of my life. Why? See next comment.
January 5, 2011 at 11:10 am
So to address my “why” (see previous comment), here’s a personal account, in sum.
Basically, I need to tackle the challenge which i touched on in yesterday’s comment in reply to Larry: To extricate ourselves from Babylon, we need to deal with Babylon and it’s power dynamics. But this challenge is so formidable, psychologically, of course, yet also practically (time is too limited to do it all) that i have gradually come to believe that we cannot engage in both types of “activism” at once without staying pretty paralyzed compared to what needs to be done. (Withdraw our “power” from the system, take back that power in order to re-direct it to co-creating something new, while at the same time working to dis-mantle the sick System and actively oppose or convert the upholders and followers of the status quo.) And this latter piercing prong also brings the nasty problem of making those we oppose into what they will see as enemies. WE won’t frame it that way, but the over-powerers will, and they can over-power us within “their” game. (If you’re not “with us”, you’re our enemies.)
Very sadly, there’s not a promising realistic outlook for pushing both prongs at once that i can see. It’s great in theory, yet in reality, i am convinced we stand a much greater chance of success by leaving be those who are still mired in the mental distractions of Babylon, and sowing change by the great power of example.
Problem is, I’m still BOTH of these types of people at the same time, the empowered and the dis-empowerd/distracted! So I’m constantly having to conduct an inner battle of sorts, albeit as peaceful one as possible, against this “dark side of the Force”. And it’s a battle that, relatively alone except for fora like these, i have yet to be able to “win”. (Partly by definition, it’s not actually “winnable”…quite a conundrum, eh?)
Even my girlfriend is not on the same “chapter” with me on this stuff, let alone on the same page. Often if feels like we aren’t even working with the same “book”. So I have to settle for the same trilogy if i’m lucky. Not that i can “blame” her exactly…You can only “push” so hard, as we all know. So it’s a multi-faceted uphill struggle fraught with pitfall and illusion. Yet it’s a struggle i still must somehow find a way to engage in, and prevail, or i remain too much just “part of the problem”. But, naturally, not just me, I see this as what “we” face, whoever “we” turn out to be. Hence my strong personal committment to CO-creating an embodiment of a new way of being. This year, and beyond, if i am “blessed” with a beyond. But i feel determined to get through this “struggle” and preparation phase in 2011. So, i say: “HELP!”
January 5, 2011 at 7:28 pm
Hi JayD — Just a brief response for now (my bug is still operating in me). I like your call for help. This world disaster is too much to tackle alone. It is too much for one person to figure out how to approach resolving it without the input of other minds/hearts. So the initial insight leads to the need to gather the helpers we need. The formation of small, diverse, dedicated groups is the first thing needed to find workable solutions to these mind boggling questions.
I have said this before, but what the H, if you feel you have a good idea, you just have to keep going back to it in different contexts, gradually trying to improve it, and communicate it better. My bugmaster is telling me its time to quit for now….more later.
January 5, 2011 at 10:33 pm
I’d like to preface my comment by simply stating the obvious, “I might be wrong, but…”
It appears to me that many of the structures created by those in power are not unlike a house of cards, and many are based on some version of a Ponzi scheme requiring the next “greater fool” for its continuance. Structures built on weak foundations, regardless of how formidable they may appear on the surface, will eventually crumble. To the extent “our” power is propping up these houses of cards, removing our power may have a greater impact than we might expect.
The only way to address the most critical problems we face – especially those that immediately challenge our long term survival and that of our life-sustaining planet – is to really understand what the issues are and have a large enough groups tackle these issues systematically and holistically.
Under the “Introduction” chapter of Vera’s book (at http://leavingbabylon.wordpress.com/book/introduction/), I posted a comment on Jan 3rd regarding my idea of creating a open sourced, holistic, ever-evolving, well-organized and user-friendly storehouse of the key issues, questions, answers and ideas. As I see it, there are perhaps dozens, if not hundreds, of people actively working on these (for example, CASSE, Transition Towns, Derrick Jensen, etc.). Would it be possible to import the best of these ideas into a single well-indexed site?
What are the key problems and issues? Can we at least define those?
What solutions and ideas have already been developed?
Is it possible much of this work has already been done but lacks cohesion and unity?
Just a thought. As I said, I might be wrong…
January 6, 2011 at 7:33 am
Late to this game, but…
power will not be wrested from the sort who dedicate their lives to it’s hoarding. They would rather die, or, more likely, kill us. But their world is predicated on the harvesting and spending of cheap fuels that give a huge return of energy, and those dwindling days are numbered. We will be returning to earlier ways of organization and food production and survival by default…though it will take time and a lot of losses to get there. At $6 a gallon and higher, only government and related predatory machineries will be able to easily afford gasoline, leaving us to scurry for crumbs while the military-industrial complexes duke it out for the last cheap energy by consuming it. All this with a backdrop of climate change and attendant agribusiness failure, as well as half the US population responding to climate change by turning to insanity (Revelations-style End World suicidal tendencies; you know, it’s God’s will, it’s not our fault).
Frankly, as I age I become less of a humanist. I can’t really believe us more important than any other creatures that share this lovely world, and in many ways we are a curse to the rest. So the likelihood of a human population bottleneck fills me with some degree of hope, as we harvest the suffering we have so long inflicted on the rest of creation. And at the heart of this imbalance is our tendency to come up with “solutions” to everything, instead of letting things be good enough.
If we want a world fit to live in, then we have to create that world for ourselves as best we can, and live there as best we can. Discussions like this, forums like this, help us locate each other and and coalesce into some sort of community. If it’s of permanent value, our numbers will grow and theirs will shrink, and when the Correction hits the fan those of us living in sustainable gatherings (we will need weaponry, folks) stand a better chance of seeing a tomorrow that does not involve cannibalism.
January 6, 2011 at 12:48 pm
Larry, vertalio — I am eager to respond to your provocative ideas, and will do so as soon as The Virus releases its hold on my mind and body.
January 8, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Yeah, in a sense it IS all a Ponzian house of cards, and in another way those cards are reinforced by so many layers of others that when that’s the case even paper is solid enough to support the crushing weight of the world…still…for now…
Larry, thanks for calling attention to your posted comment that lies un-noticed elsewhere here, and re-stating it. I’ll read it there too. I do have a colleague, or former one, not sure at this point, but he’s had much passion for the general sort of thing you propose, to the point of actually working on it. I’ll try forwarding the idea, which i have long treasured as a goal as well, to him and let you know if i hear back anything helpful, or if he wants to join the discussion, perhaps he will appear here and speak for himself.
Vertalio, i’m with you very much on nearly everything you said as well. Less so on the need for weaponry, among the slipperiest of slopes, though i do grok the strong argument in favor. And I’m working to cultivate deep compassion for the suffering of all life, including but not especially for human life, in order to avoid callousness about the reality of the “bottleneck” you point out. Tough stuff.
Meanwhile, biggest challenge Q here: How to, practically speaking, go about forming these truly cohesive and catalytic “community” groups we see as necessary and which we are seemingly readying and willing to help populate?!
January 11, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Hi all,
just stumbled on really useful (IMO) blog post about the nature and need for community, and how lacking it is.
http://wordgravity.blogspot.com/2009/06/vital-skill-for-forging-our-furture.html
Hope it’s useful to some among us…
best wishes
Dwight
January 11, 2011 at 6:53 pm
Thanks for the link Dwight. I am still chewing on it. Have you heard anything from Vera? I am worried that she may be back in the hospital? She did not answer an email I sent.
January 11, 2011 at 10:34 pm
So sorry to make you worry, Mike and Marc.
Medical trauma is past.
Deep hibernation.
All tawked out.
Larry, so delighted you found us!
More words, soon, I hope…
January 11, 2011 at 11:06 pm
Thank you Vera. I’m delighted to have found you!
Sorry you’re all “tawked” out, but glad your medical trauma is past. Hope your hibernation provides the recovery time you need.
I’m sure we all look forward to hearing from you when you’re feeling better.
Best,
Larry
January 12, 2011 at 1:15 am
Big bear hug to you Vera, as ever.
Would be very interested in people’s in put on the question of “Why Not Quit?” What reasons people have etc… I’ve posted some possible answers here-
http://dwighttowers.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/why-not-quit/
Cheers.
January 15, 2011 at 9:45 am
“Why not quit?” What a wonderful question. It has been burrowing into my inner parts for the last couple of days, and early this morning as I meditated, the deep answer surfaced. I will try to share that later, but for now, the simple answer is: I cannot quit because to do so would deny the very basis of who I am. Thanks so much for this truly pregnant question, Dwight. I hope all of us will give it the consideration it deserves.
January 18, 2011 at 1:01 pm
Dwight, i checked out the links to the community post, and your vid. It’s good to “see” and be able to picture who’s “talking” here…alas, i cannot currently follow suit, though would be glad to send a pic to people via email, if i had their email addresses. I like others, seem reluctant to give mine out on a public website. Pretty sure that reluctance will change as i do…
As to the less superficial substance of these links, i’ll stick to generalities here in my little comments box and say that you make many important points…but you obviously already know that. Thanx for putting yourself out there after your admitted years in the sheeple flock.
As we keep “getting” from almost all sides, community IS clearly crucial and the woman’s post takes it to a deep enough level that it can do some good. Also crucial is analyzing why more isn’t being “done” by those who should, apparently do, know better. I appreciate you pinpointing this stuff.
I’d tie these two crucial issues together by saying that, well, we’re in the right place being at this blog, or one of the right places, as leavergirl and her commenters speak relentlessly about both authentic community and authentic change. Without these intertwined necessities, there truly is no reason to continue that i can see, except to watch the ultimate dramatic and tragic “movie” unfold.
So let’s get on with figuring out how to pull it off. For my next comment, i plan get into some essence of my own take on how to do this intertwining. Meantime, i wonder, is “everyone” still listening here?
January 18, 2011 at 1:53 pm
JayD — I am definitely still listening, and learning. I just did a couple of longish posts on Dwight’s Blog re: Is hope a luxury we can’t afford? Maybe too much poetry and spiritual philosophy for the practical minded leaver girl to stomach? So I hesitated to repost it here.
January 18, 2011 at 3:15 pm
OK, well, I’m back already and by the way, here’s what i was just watching over brunch…(The TED talks generally seem to sort of straddle the space between mainstream and wherever “we” are.) I really like that story of the “18th camel” at the beginning. His point near the end about the place that is the most peaceful seemed a stretch, but the rest does give some “cause for hope”, eh?:
http://www.ted.com/talks/william_ury.html?utm_source=newsletter_weekly_2010-11-30&utm_campaign=newsletter_weekly&utm_medium=email
Now back to my take on why not quit vs. why not keep going, and how to get into community. I’ll start with what’s intended to be helpful generalities, followed here, or later, or maybe never, by elaboration.
–”Hope” itself needs to be scrutinized, and fortunately is, by more and more people. But we need to keep exploring how to proceed. One possible practical mental/emotional approach to examining the deep end of this inner phenomenon is to sit quietly for however many minutes, and start open-mindedly contemplating the possible meanings of a simple sounding English-language phrase: “beyond hope”. Works for me anyway.
–I’m not sure about how universal this is compared to seeing it as much a matter of the differing strategies of different personality types and traits, but here’s what doesn’t work for me: To continue to believe in and plug away for major change despite being unable to truly (post-naively) believe in achieving much progress toward such change. This seems to be a surprisingly common theme, and much more than just a “theme” (a meme?), in the world. Yet to me it’s more of a fairly shallow coping strategy. At least shallow waters, once clarified, are easy to see through. Maybe we need a radical re-definition of “practical”, but isn’t it smarter for a society, good in some ways at grounded practicality, to work toward goals and to use means which are actually perceivable by the practitioner as achievable without over-compromising? To proceed as if we can when we really believe we probably cannot, well, I see why many people need to do this as part of the great experiment, but for me it would be great folly. I don’t see how the inherent cognitive dissonance itself isn’t likely to do as much to sabotage the whole process as anything else.
January 18, 2011 at 4:07 pm
JayD — To be without hope sounds really neat, especially when an expert polemicist like Derrick Jensen rhapsodizes over it. But for me, it seems one short step from hopelessness, to despair, to we are inevitably doomed, to might as well throw in the towel and give up all chance of our world being saved from the worst in us. I would rather avoid that slippery slope, no matter how classy it might feel to adopt some kind of Zen detachment about it all, and look down on those poor fools who still think there is a chance of our recovery. Not far from eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die. Or Papa Karamazov’s apres moi le deluge (famous mot of Louis Quattorze). After me, the flood. I don’t give a damn what happens after I die. It wasn’t too hard many years ago, when I was in my don’t give a shit period to echo those sentiments. Things are different now. I care.
Disclaimer: I am not telling anyone else how to row their boat. We each have our own ways of navigating the inner rivers. Journey well, with my blessings…
January 18, 2011 at 4:07 pm
Mike, i just went back and checked out Dwight’s blog and so far read the shortish comments which some of the denizens here, including you, posted in response to the “why not quit?” post. So i added a couple of cents too, mostly replying to leavergirl. Will go back and read the previous post and comments.
First, FWIW, here’s the rest of what i had to say here for today.
–There is a way I can see to move forward with what I allude to in the previous post. But with my role as a quasi-visitor here after all, I’m not here to “push” my specific agenda, so much as to see if it can blend with those of others here. As would we all, I’d like to hear more from others, and co – operate.
And I want to give a bit of a disclaimer related to the just above, and especially my previous comment. I see it as a sort of weakness in myself, my reluctance to give out “too much” “personal” info over a publicly-available webspace. It’s, again, partly an issue of personality type. I’m a bit shy in some ways, and this is one. Even though the times seem to call more and more loudly for it, I don’t want to “lead the way” in hardly any way, yet we are all called to lead our own lives and I must play my part in the larger… It’s not about having “anything to hide”. I certainly “mean no harm” to anyone. I am so against strategies involving unnecessary violence (the previous two words needing definition, of course) that I don’t know how to tell you all. Basically I advocate doing very little to piss off the system, but more to leave that human beehive “alone”, as it’s being beaten on and stirred up more than enough as it is, too much for balance to be restored that way, but rather to mostly allow it to play out its drama.
After all, it’s not like we can stop it from playing out, anyway. So why live as if we could? But I don’t mean leave it alone without being meaningfully linked in somehow. And key to this is that those still living and working within civilization as we know it, have the possibility of remaining interested in and staying in some touch with what we (whoever that would be) are doing instead. That’s the only way I can see to realistically, relatively rapidly, resiliently, sustainably spread healthier memes here. By example, by showing that we can do better, partly by changing the scale. And partly by changing the game by changing the “frame”. We should know by now we won’t get the system to change in the middle of the overwhelmingly massive and disruptive human meme-hive, where our ways, memes, are treated as invaders to get clobbered and swallowed up. I urge all who can stomach it to get on with co-creating something else out of what we’re learning about what works and doesn’t.
January 18, 2011 at 4:09 pm
OK I double posted this, let’s try again:
JayD — To be without hope sounds really neat, especially when an expert polemicist like Derrick Jensen rhapsodizes over it. But for me, it seems one short step from hopelessness, to despair, to we are inevitably doomed, to might as well throw in the towel and give up all chance of our world being saved from the worst in us. I would rather avoid that slippery slope, no matter how classy it might feel to adopt some kind of Zen detachment about it all, and look down on those poor fools who still think there is a chance of our recovery. Not far from eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die. Or Papa Karamazov’s apres moi le deluge (famous mot of Louis Quattorze). After me, the flood. I don’t give a damn what happens after I die. It wasn’t too hard many years ago, when I was in my don’t give a shit period to echo those sentiments. Things are different now. I care.
Disclaimer: I am not telling anyone else how to row their boat. We each have our own ways of navigating the inner rivers. Journey well, with my blessings…
January 18, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Mike,
I agree, except i posted a comment after yours at Dwight’s that refers to a different focus if not different approach, i.e., Joanna Macy’s insistence that we can let go into despair without getting irretrievably lost in it, for we can come out the other side, heart broken but stronger, much less vulnerable to obliteration. Not to be underestimated (not that you are). It’s an essentially, for lack of a better word, “spiritual” process that i, at my best, benefit from: Now that i’ve deeply accepted that industrial civ. is going down a drain of its own making, what does that mean? Am i empowered to find what that frees me up to give my deeper energy to instead? Time (and no small effort) will tell. I “hope” we are right!
January 18, 2011 at 6:07 pm
JayD — I don’t think that building community or developing new lifestyles and groups needs to be kept as a choice that excludes commitment to trying to stop the industrial machine and the elites that control it. There is the modeling of a better way that might eventually involve others. And there is withdrawing energy from the prevailing madness. Are these 100% effective ways to “bring down civ”? No, nothing we can do is 100% effective or guaranteed to accomplish that. But everything furthers. And we just don’t know what straw will break this “civilized” camel’s back. Ignorance of possible outcomes can be a great resource when you are engaged in an impossible task!
January 18, 2011 at 6:28 pm
Intending to clarify then, Mike, after which i’ll try to shut up for the day and give others a chance…I don’t think that the two commitments you sum up “need to be” kept separate. But i personally do favor the two options you went on to list, over actively “trying to stop” the Machines and elites. Find a better way with whoever’s truly into it, and allow others to lead and to follow more easily. Energy thus withrawn, which freely flows to a better place. “Hope”fully. That can bring down The Machine with minimal violence and suffering, without so much conjuring of visions of having to endure a Mad Max-ian future. Few people i’d want to hang with would but turn away from doing more than watching “Mad Max” from a relatively safe distance.
January 18, 2011 at 6:38 pm
JayD — I don’t even care to ever watch the Mad Max movies again, much less live in that world. I am not going to spend my time now worying about that. I once spent time and energy “preparing” for nuclar war. Bomb shelter, geiger counter, food supplies, the works. That was long ago. I think prevention beats the hell out of “cure” for those scenarios. If you spend your life preparing for every concievable contingency, you won’t have time left for anything else. And there is a lot else to life.
January 19, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Thanks Mike and JD (and our gracious hostess!) for the above. For me, sustainable “activism” (I am coming to hate that exclusivist and patronising word) is about finding the ways the ‘System’ can be blunted, channelled and at the same time the new world within it be nurtured (even as we look at the collapse). Antonio Dias, frequent commenter here, mentioned David Abram, who I’d never heard of. I’m just starting to read his essays, and one has an epigram “There is another world, but it is *in* this one.”
– Paul Eluard
Anyway, all best to you all. Latest Dwight posts are cartoons and focussed on British climate activism, and possibly of limited interest!!